MAINTENANCE. “You should not clean the stands with Kärcher, but with a brush,” says sociologist Nicolas Hourcade

After a 2021-2022 season marked by a series of incidents in the stands, sociologist Nicolas Hourcade, associate professor of social sciences at the École Centrale de Lyon and specialist in supporterism, takes the time to analyze the causes and consequences of these events. For the sociologist, lessons must be learned from this calamitous season in the stands with one priority: to re-establish dialogue between supporters and the various institutions.

Franceinfo sport: The season has just ended. What is your assessment of this enamelled exercise with numerous incidents in the stands?
Nicolas Hourcade: I can’t wait for it to end (laughs). It was a very complicated year, a lot of things were wrong, both on the side of the supporters and those who manage them. And in addition the return of far-right demonstrations! Tensions between supporters and managers linked to the transformations of football also marked the year.

Were you surprised by the outbursts at the start of the season?
Yes, in particular by the scale of the incidents. Is this a situational phenomenon due to the return of the public to the stadiums after the health crisis, or structural with more violent supporters than before? I think it’s a bit of both. The many incidents in the first part of the season can be linked to the excessive excitement caused by the return to the stadiums. But we also feel that ultra and hooligan groups have been more violent for a few years, already before the Covid.

Why is the tension rising?
There are situational elements linked to the post-Covid period: the excitement of the supporters, as we have said, but also the loss of certain match organization habits, the difficult recruitment of stewards, etc… Also , since the late 2010s, the ultra movement has gained momentum and rivalries between groups have become entrenched. The tensions have started again this season after long months of matches without audience. Then, football is in full transformation: transition from L1 then from L2 to 18 clubs, projects of closed leagues, arrival of investment funds…

The supporters are convinced that they are the guarantors of the integrity of their club and intervene to protect it. It can lead to violent incidents, such as actions against management or players (Paris, Lyon, Nantes or Red Star recently).

Nicolas Hourcade

at franceinfo: sport

The consequence of all this is that the authorities’ response is only repressive, with prefectural decrees prohibiting the movement of supporters…
The problem is not the repression of violent behavior, which is necessary, but the way in which it is carried out. France is characterized by collective measures: closure of stadiums, stands, travel ban. EHe hits on all the supporters instead of targeting the problem ones. It is not by doing so that England or Germany have eradicated hooliganism, but by targeting violent individuals to exclude them from the stadium.

Why these methods?
It is simpler and less costly to prohibit travel and close a platform than to mobilize police and judges to identify and sanction individuals.

Our mode of repression is not effective and produces perverse effects. We should return to the progress made between 2016 and 2019, with better coordination between repression and prevention, better anticipation of displacements, and reconciling security and freedom.

Nicolas Hourcade

at franceinfo: sport

The spirit of the 2019 Nunez circular sent by the Ministry of the Interior to the prefects seems far away. She encouraged them to prohibit the travel of visiting supporters only as a last resort. This year, we had a festival of travel bans for lunar reasons which make these measures lose their legitimacy. The prefect of Loire-Atlantique nevertheless prohibited Nantes residents from wearing the FCN jersey in their own city!

Why this lack of dialogue with the supporters?
Politicians have called for the individualization of sanctions, but deeds have not followed words. We also have the impression that the world of football, including certain observers, is awaiting extremely visible sanctions for display reasons. This year the INS [Instance nationale du supportérisme] was completely obscured. However, it is an ideal consultative body, since it brings together all the stakeholders. Why ? You have to ask the Minister of Sports. Maybe she didn’t really understand what this tool consisted of, what it could bring to defuse and ease tensions. The INS seems to be seen as being reduced to carrying the voice of the supporters, whereas it is a body for exchanges between sports and public authorities, clubs and supporters.

What does the National Directorate for the Fight against Hooliganism do?
The DNLH no longer seems to play the regulatory role it had been able to play between 2017 and 2020. However, this national regulation is necessary to avoid abuses by certain prefectures.

The referent supporters still have a weight?
Referent supporters are increasingly considered in the world of football. On the other hand, this year, there seems not to have been enough dialogue between the clubs and the prefectures.

Will the dialogue and progress of recent years be able to resume?
I can’t say I’m optimistic, I have no idea what can happen next year. Overall, the season tends towards pessimism. But for some time, exchanges have been relaunched within the INS. I hope that we will be able to learn from the dysfunctions of this season in order to be better next year. Perhaps also that the new Minister of Sports will be able to take hold of this dossier and manage it effectively.

Are the clubs at fault?
Everyone has to play their part: authorities, league, clubs, supporters. But in my opinion, the impetus must come from above, from the State, which must make the clubs responsible and not pass it on to them. Clubs must strive to build constructive relationships with supporter groups, which varies greatly from city to city.

The Celtic cross encrusted on a tricolor decorated by Reims supporters in Lorient last May is not a trivial event. We had not seen that for ten years, we must be vigilant.

Nicolas Hourcade

at franceinfo sport

What role does the desire for power, for involvement in the life of the club, play in this phenomenon?
The current tensions between clubs and supporters are linked to the evolution, particularly economic, of football. The history of football in the 21st century is marked by the fact that supporters become actors of the club and are recognized as such. This role was praised when part of the English stands opposed the closed league project. Sometimes, the supporters have the feeling of being the only ones to oppose the economic transformations breaking with certain traditions of this sport, as in Marseille against Eyraud, or Bordeaux against Longuépée.

Fans often raise deep issues. It would be useful for national and international institutions to better regulate football to prevent anyone from doing anything, whether in a club or in the format of competitions. The Super League project is aimed at supporters other than those who are currently mobilizing, in particular those who are in front of the TV. The most committed supporters feel that football could become something other than the sport they have learned to love, which explains their mobilization.

Dimitri Payet called for calm again during the UNFP trophy ceremony, is he right to position himself like this in your opinion?
It’s good that players get involved and seek to educate their supporters. But it all depends on what Payet means by “clean the stands”. For the moment, we do it at Kärcher, to use a famous expression, which is not effective. Cleaning the stands requires fine work with the mobilization of all the players, against the individuals who pose a problem. It is not a question of reaching all the supporters, but of aiming precisely. The stands should not be cleaned with Kärcher, but rather with a brush.

Which clubs should follow the example?
Strasbourg is obviously a good example. It’s an interesting case, because the club had to start from scratch and tried to rebuild on a sound basis. Fans have been positively associated with this reconstruction. This involves concrete things, such as regular exchanges between the club and its supporters’ associations, but also the very conception of the place that supporters occupy in the club. The public is often highlighted, it becomes in itself an element that enhances the club. The same process seems to be taking place on the side of Toulouse.