COP28 takes place in Dubai from November 30 to December 12. Stéphane Crouzat, ambassador in charge of international negotiations on climate change, details France’s roadmap.
It is the focal point for discussions on global climate policies. From November 30 to December 12, France is sending around fifty negotiators to COP28 in Dubai (United Arab Emirates). Among them, Stéphane Crouzat, ambassador in charge of international negotiations on climate change, for renewable energies and the prevention of climate risks. “To make it simpler, it’s ‘ambassador for the climate’, that will be enough”he continues, smiling.
From his office in an annex of the Ministry of Europe and Foreign Affairs, with a view of the Eiffel Tower, or in the aisles of the pre-COP in Abu Dhabi at the end of October, he prepared the 28th conference on climate change ( or COP28) and drew up, with its interministerial team, France’s position in these exchanges. “The IPCC told us that we needed a peak in emissions [avant la baisse attendue] between 2020 and 2025 if we wanted to stay on the trajectory of 1.5°C of warming. And we hope not to go further.”, he explains. Between three acronyms – COP, PPCA, Agnu… – of which he is the specialist, he explained to franceinfo the positions that Paris was going to try to hold in the negotiations.
Franceinfo: What role will France play in this COP?
Stéphane Crouzat: In the COPs, the European Union only speaks with one voice, since only one climate policy is put forward within the framework of the COPs. We like to believe and say – rightly – that the European Union is one of the leaders in the climate cause. That is to say that we are, among the developed countries, those which have one of the most robust emissions reduction trajectories: less 55% by 2030 and climate neutrality by 2050. In terms of financial, we also do a lot. On a European scale, we believe that we have fulfilled the promise that was made [en 2009, par les pays développés, pour financer la lutte contre le changement climatique dans les pays en développement] on the 100 billion per year, since we are at 27 billion dollars in 2020. We therefore think that we are really at the forefront of ambition on these questions.
Various judgments or reports, however, establish that France is not in agreement with its climate objectives. Do these convictions hamper the negotiation exercise?
Yes, we are subject to procedures. So much the better in a way, because it mobilizes us all to act more and better. France is doing as much as possible and we are trying to achieve these objectives. We still have very clear results: we reduced our energy consumption by 12% simply with the concept of sobriety, which is remarkable, and our emissions are decreasing. 4% this year and 2.7% last year. We are therefore on a trend of respecting our objectives. And at the European level, relevant in the COP negotiations, our very strong “fit for 55” package gives us a very clear trajectory, a very robust roadmap.
COP28 will be an opportunity to take stock of the Paris agreement. What do you think it will be?
Unfortunately, we all agree that we are not at all where we should be. What we want, during this COP, is to inform the parties on what needs to be done, as quickly as possible. This decade is critical: we really still have a window of opportunity which is shrinking day by day to stay at 1.5°C of warming. With the European Union and many very ambitious countries in the desire to reduce global emissions, we say that we absolutely need an emissions peak [avant la baisse attendue] before 2025. The IPCC told us, we need this peak between 2020 and 2025 if we want to stay on the 1.5°C trajectory. And we hope not to go beyond that.
After the assessment of past action comes the prospects for future actions. This COP could be the one that will deal with the exit from fossil fuels. What exactly do you want to see in the final agreement?
There needs to be a mention of the exit from fossil fuels. Should we have “unabated fossil fuels”, that is to say an exit from fossil fuels without a carbon capture device? Are we going to have “phase down” [une baisse progressive] ? Will we only talk about the shows? The Saudis and the Emirates, for example, say: “Look, it’s not the source that matters, it’s the broadcasts.” If this is the case, it will put on the table the question of carbon storage, of all kinds of technologies which could make it possible to continue to use fossil fuels while reducing emissions. What we are defending is clearly a message to get out of fossil fuels. “Unabated” probably, since this is the position put forward by the EU Environment Council on October 16.
Indeed, carbon capture and storage (CCS) promises to be a hotly debated topic. How do France and, more broadly, the European Union see this solution, essential but far from sufficient, according to the IPCC?
The Gulf countries are extremely interested in the subject. For us, of course CCS is important, but not to continue using oil and gas as if nothing had happened. We’ll never get there. This could be used for what we call residual emissions: very energy-intensive consumption, industries that we will not be able to electrify, for example. But we want it to be very, very targeted and residual.
During discussions, we will also say that this is an immature solution. We cannot rely on these technological solutions. We must first work to reduce the source. So we’ll see how we end up in the final agreement… Because that’s what makes these negotiations incredibly complex: as we’ve never managed to agree on the voting terms, we have to ‘there is consensus, that is to say that not everyone is sufficiently opposed to formally block something.
During previous COPs, subsidiary agreements between groups of countries were signed on the sidelines of the official negotiations. Does France plan to carry out similar projects in Dubai?
Indeed, there is everything that is negotiated by the parties within the framework of the Convention and the Paris Agreement, but there are also all the various and varied initiatives. This is very important too. We, for example, want to launch a “Buildings breakthrough” [une percée sur le bâtiment]. This sector represents a third of global emissions and there are more and more buildings being built with population growth, so it is necessary to have sustainable buildings. We want to launch this initiative to ensure that all countries cooperate.
The President of the Republic will also raise the subject of coal. It is the most polluting of fossil fuels and the number of power plants will continue to increase: there are 500 gigawatts in the pipes [en comparaison, les centrales mondiales actuelles ont une capacité de production de 1 980 gigawatts, selon le rapport annuel du Global Energy Monitor]. We must try to mobilize the international community even more on stopping coal.
Furthermore, the Emirates are very keen to have commitments whatever happens at the COP, whatever the outcome of the negotiations. There will therefore be several initiatives launched by the host country. Afterwards, we tell them that it is very good that there are these “pledges” [engagements annexes]. For example, on tripling the capacity of renewable energies by 2030 and doubling the energy efficiency rate. But we also tell them that it would be even better if all this was part of the final decision of the COP.