After Belarus in recent weeks, Calais, in northern France, has focused the attention of European countries on migration issues, since four days after the death of some thirty exiles who were trying to reach England by Channel, France is organizing this Sunday, November 28, in Calais, a meeting with the Belgian, German and Dutch ministers in charge of migration issues. Also present are representatives of the European Commission. Sociologist Jean Viard helps us decipher these questions.
franceinfo: Jean Viard, can Europe succeed in containing, also coming to terms with and distributing these migratory flows?
Jean Viard: But the problem is that we are facing a great crisis of nations in reality, that is to say that these nations were built by previous wars, by class confrontations, etc. and they are in full uncertainty and suddenly, they are looking for an opponent.
Let’s put it simply: there are 200 million human beings on this planet, out of 8 billion, who do not live in their country of origin. Basically, that’s 3% of the world’s population, and most of the people leave their countries for neighboring countries. So the movement from South to North is roughly 1% of humanity. So there is not a huge crowd but we have to give the figures again.
And then, at the same time, everyone sees the anguish: it is real, the fear. So that’s what we are up against, because even in Belarus, what was done, which is despicable for playing politics – using them as combat weapons – it was 5, 6, 7,000 people. . Excuse me, we broadcast them without even seeing them in a European Union where we are 450 million. So we can clearly see that what is at stake is indeed our systems of belonging.
I think we have to say one very simple thing: we did not build a postcolonial discourse on the links between the former colonies and the former metropolises. Why do people want to go to England? This is because they are English speaking, because they often come from countries that were once British colonies.
When people come to France, most of the time, it is because they speak French that they were brought up in French culture. Values, more or less of a part of our values, anyway. The problem is, it looks like the day the colony ended, we built walls. The answer is no. Let us pay our debt as a colonizer by having a welcoming report to the youth of the former colonies. We could say it like that, to shift the debate.
So, faced with these migratory questions, these migratory tensions, the European Union is showing itself to be fairly united. We have seen it facing Belarus, and we are now seeing it facing Great Britain, with these ministers meeting today. And during that time, the rag is burning between France in particular, and the United Kingdom.
British Prime Minister Boris Johnson wrote an open letter this week to Emmanuel Macron, and the latter replied quite curtly: this is not how we communicate between heads of state, he told him. he said, to sum it up. And above all, he basically rejects the British proposals, in particular that France take back all migrants who have arrived illegally in Great Britain; is there this showdown between France and Great Britain?
Yes, but that is clear. On the one hand, I think that this showdown has taken back the place it had before Great Britain joined the European Union, it is a ritual game between these two countries. But it’s not just a game since there have been 27 deaths and in fact, there are many more, including those that we do not see. And this is obviously to be compared with the question of fishermen. So the question of the sea which separates us or which brings us together – it depends on the period – is completely at the heart of the world of tomorrow.
So there is this migratory crisis. You also mentioned the fishing license crisis between France and the United Kingdom, and this made the government spokesman, Gabriel Attal, say all these tensions, that there is enough for him double speeches and of the permanent outsourcing of the British ‘s problems to the European Union, when they made the choice of Brexit.
As you pointed out, do you think there is a very clear, very clear link? Britain is no longer in the European Union, so the tensions are much more present, much stronger?
Yes, that seems pretty obvious to me. And then Boris Johnson was elected on Brexit, but deep down, no one in England knew exactly what it was going to turn out to be. It is always the question of defining an enemy from the outside, in order to create a common one. Moreover, the English tabloids will not hesitate to actually hit the French with shortened arms. And we do it a bit too.
That is to say, basically, we, the French, are against the English and the British, because in addition, there are conflicts between them, as you know, since Scotland, in particular , plans to leave Great Britain. They seek to come together and unfortunately having an enemy brings people together easily. History has shown us that.