War in Ukraine | Zelensky or the metamorphosis…

Journalist at Time Magazine, Simon Shuster has had privileged access to Volodymyr Zelensky since the start of the Russian invasion. In his book We will vanquish (The Showman in English), it tells how the Ukrainian president moved from the role of actor to that of warlord, and how his talents as an actor allowed him to make this radical transition. Interview.

The Showman is halfway between biography and report. How was the project born ?

I had already written two or three articles in Time Magazine after the start of the Russian invasion. The publishers thought we should go further and make a book. I presented the idea to President Zelensky in April 2022. He was not very enthusiastic, because the books are too slow and he needs to communicate with the world quickly. But it was open. We had known each other for three years, he knew my work and my connection to Ukraine.

Basically, this book tells the story of a metamorphosis. What do you think has changed about Zelensky since the start of this large-scale invasion?

It’s difficult to describe this transformation in a few words. But the person I met in 2019 was very optimistic, funny, relaxed, a little naive about his abilities to take on the challenge of leadership in a country like Ukraine, which had already been at war with Russia for five years. . Zelensky felt he had every chance of resolving this war and finding a negotiated solution with Putin. Over time, he slowly becomes disillusioned. He learns how ugly and nasty international politics can be. With the large-scale invasion, the evolution is more dramatic. He takes on the personality of a leader in times of war, which is much tougher, more disciplined. He no longer has time for jokes, humor and debate. He is quicker and sharper in his decision-making. It’s not a quick metamorphosis, it’s an evolution in his leadership.

How much did being an actor help him in his diplomacy and as a warlord?

Big question that the book tries to answer. Anyone who is in the position of leading a country into war needs to change quickly, take on a new personality, new responsibilities. Zelensky’s experience as an actor gave him a kind of mental flexibility to change, to become something new, and to do so more quickly than a professional politician. To my great surprise and to the surprise of many, the skills he developed as an actor, on how to communicate, how to “win” an audience, how to have an emotional appeal, how to keep the audience’s attention, he became very useful during the war.

Would we have had a different war with another Ukrainian leader? His predecessor Petro Poroshenko, for example?

I believe him. When he was in power (2014-2019), President Poroshenko also tried to gain the sympathy of the world, to convince the West that the war in Donbass also concerned him. But he was less successful than Zelensky. There is charisma, but also a fundamental understanding of how to communicate. We need to see how Zelensky uses TV, social networks, how he writes his speeches. So yes, I think the war would have been different with a leader who did not have the assets to gain international support.

We see in your book how Zelensky’s entourage has changed, between the moment he took power and today. Would you say that he isolated himself little by little?

There is indeed a long evolution of his circle of advisors and his administration. In 2019, it was a big chaotic group with consultants from the world of entertainment, politics, a few professional economists, diplomats, but also a good number of personal friends. Over time, this circle becomes smaller. More professional. More disciplined. I believe this change became clearer with the large-scale invasion. There is a small group who are very loyal to him and who carry his desire and his vision. That doesn’t mean he’s isolated. He is not sitting in a bunker surrounded by a few aides-de-camp. He travels a lot around the world, in Ukraine, he meets soldiers, citizens, foreign leaders. And having traveled with him, I can tell you that he makes sure to listen to the people he meets, so as not to be limited in his understanding of the world and the war.

You focus a lot on his complex relationship with General Zalouzhny, whom he ended up dismissing a few weeks ago. How did they get there?

It’s a complicated story. At the start of the invasion, President Zelensky felt deep admiration and respect for Zaluzhny. He let him make all the decisions in terms of military strategy. But over time, we see him gain confidence in his skills as a military strategist. He develops his own ideas and visions on how to fight this war on the battlefield and his visions and priorities are not the same as those of his commander in chief. The more the invasion progresses, the more Zelensky uses his authority under the Constitution to make decisions, even if Zaluzhny disagrees. There is a series of behind-the-scenes disagreements between the two most powerful men in the country and I think it has become more and more of a distraction for Ukraine.

At the end of the book, you wonder if Zelensky will be able to give up his position after the war, if Ukraine wins. Could he want to cling to power?

I imagine it will be a very difficult transition for the president to return to normal European democracy. President Zelensky currently has the power to control TV channels and censor the media. Under martial law, the functioning of Parliament is limited, and power is transferred to the office of the president. After the war, TV stations can start criticizing the president again. There will be elections again. It will be difficult to allow this in a post-war context. The economy is going to be in bad shape. Infrastructure will be largely destroyed, millions of refugees will return home and military personnel too, they will need support, social, economic, psychological. This will be a major test for Zelensky.

How do you see the future of this conflict? Optimistic or pessimistic?

I try to chronicle the reality we have and not the future or hypothetical reality. It’s not my job to say what the future holds. After reporting on Russia and Ukraine for 15 years, I have learned not to make big predictions, because reality always has surprises in store.

Your father is Ukrainian and your mother Russian. Do you think the two peoples will ever be able to reconcile?

President Zelensky and many Ukrainians feel that the Russian people are as responsible for this war as Putin. I have the feeling that the pain of this war will take several generations to heal.

Has Zelensky read your book?

I do not think so. I know it was sent to him. But I think he’s been very busy…