“It’s a country that’s fighting, but it’s also a country that’s reforming,” says Gaël Veyssière, who has been in office for a little less than three months.
Ukrainians “are united against Russia, but are also united so that their country becomes a Western country”, affirmed the French ambassador in kyiv Gaël Veyssière, Monday November 13 on franceinfo, while the European Commission recommended the opening of negotiations with a view to joining the European Union. The Ukrainian population “understood that the war would be long, but she is still determined to fight and remain united in the face of Russian aggression”, he analyzes, “this is the fight of their lives”. A fight that involves weapons, the Ukrainians “do not wish to negotiate because they hope to be able to continue to reconquer their territories” but also through reforms: “Ukrainians have a very strong expectation of becoming a normal European country. For that, we have to fight. But we also have to reform, fight against corruption and assert the rule of law, reform the justice system.”
franceinfo: Ukraine is preparing for a new winter under bombs after the failure of its counter-offensive. You’ve been on the job for a little less than three months. What is the dominant impression among the Ukrainians you meet on a daily basis?
Gaël Veyssière: The impression that dominates is first of all determination. The determination to fight, the determination to resist, defend, attack, but also the determination to reform the country.
And yet, there is no longer really any question of counter-offensive today?
I think we must be undeceived on this point. There is both a lot of defense and Ukraine is blocking the Russians in Donbass and the Russians are losing a lot of people. But Ukraine also continues to try to progress in the South. There is progress which is, it is true, very out of proportion to what had been desired, hoped for, announced. But this counter-offensive continues. There are bridgeheads on the Kherson side. And then it also continues in the Orikhiv axis. This is the fight of their lives. It’s 628 days of war today and the Ukrainians are coping and they are coping with the support of their friends, of course, but they are the ones fighting on the ground.
But the longer the conflict lasts, the more it benefits Russia?
On this, I think we have to know how to maintain reason because in reality, no one would have believed that Ukraine could resist Russia from the first day and that is what it did. At first, she was all alone. Today, she is no longer alone. She is supported by many members of the international community and she still has this admirable courage.
“At the end of the day, what’s really the key is the courage of the Ukrainians, the determination of the Ukrainians.”
Gaël Veyssière, French ambassador to kyivat franceinfo
I believe that the Ukrainian people understood that the war would be long, but they are still determined to fight and remain united in the face of Russian aggression.
Does that mean that the idea of negotiating with Moscow, which is sometimes mentioned here in France, is not even a debate in kyiv, in the political class, in society?
For the moment, the idea of negotiation is not a debate at all, no, actually. And you know the position of our President of the Republic who reiterated it to the BBC a few days ago: it is up to the Ukrainians to determine when and how they wish to negotiate. For the moment, they do not want to, because they hope to be able to continue to reconquer their territories. And their goal is the integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine.
Last week, in Paris, the Ukrainian president’s wife Olga Zelenska said: “Don’t forget us.” Is there a risk that this Ukrainian conflict will be forgotten and fade into the background, particularly because there is another war in the Middle East?
I think it would be dramatic if that were the case. Current events impose several crises at once and we can’t really choose. International crises come when they come and we have to face them. I believe Ukrainians understand this and are determined to remind the world of their situation. This was the purpose of Mrs. Zelenska’s visit. But it is also the meaning of French and international commitment. The Minister of Agriculture was in kyiv two days ago. The Minister of the Armed Forces went to kyiv. Mrs Colonna, the Minister for Europe and Foreign Affairs went to kyiv.
Are arms deliveries continuing?
French military support, including arms deliveries, continues. But the new horizon, which the Minister of the Armed Forces explained when he came with 19 business leaders to kyiv at the end of September, is to be able to produce weapons together in Ukraine. This obviously makes it possible to shorten both production and delivery times. And then, it is also in Europe’s interest because in reality, we see that collectively, our continent needs to produce more weapons to be able to defend itself if necessary.
At the end of last week, the European Commission recommended the opening of negotiations with a view to Ukraine’s accession to the European Union. What is the next step ?
The next step is the European Council in December, mid-December to be exact, to find out if it will agree to the opening of negotiations. And then there are a whole bunch of technical steps.
Doesn’t that mean that it’s a bit of an empty promise, a promise that we make because it’s war?
No way. Because in reality, Ukraine has made an enormous amount of effort and, moreover, as Catherine Colonna says, it is fair recognition of the efforts that have been made by Ukraine. In fact, it is a country that is fighting, but it is also a country that is reforming. And there is a very strong expectation among Ukrainians to become a normal European country. For that, we have to fight. But we must also reform, fight against corruption and affirm the rule of law, reform the justice system.
There will be no presidential elections next year. It is not possible ?
So for now, no, it’s very complicated. This is a choice that is really up to the Ukrainians, naturally. On the other hand, the reforms are taking place now. But what we must see is that there is strong demand from the population. And that’s a bit what President Zelensky also embodies: it’s the desire to fight, but also to reform the country. Because once again, Ukrainians feel that they are united: they are united against Russia, but are also united so that their country becomes a “normal” Western, European country, if I dare say so. But we are very far from it, of course, because it is war.
When we talk about Western support, isn’t there the dizziness of a Donald Trump victory and the end of American support at the end of 2024?
This is naturally something that is talked about in kyiv and that Ukrainians can sometimes worry about. They themselves tell us that they are very confident that there will be transpartisan support in Congress for their cause and that whatever happens in 2024, it would not change American support. What is certain is that the key to the situation, for the moment, is what is happening on the military field. Diplomacy follows the military and not the other way around. And by November 2024 or January 2025, we are still very far away. Once again, the key to everything is the unity of the country.
What is your daily life like as French Ambassador to kyiv in a country at war today?
First of all, it’s a very normal everyday life. And then, suddenly, in the midst of this normality, there is an air alert. You have to go to shelters. Sometimes the sirens don’t sound because there are supersonic missiles going faster than the siren. This is what happened again this weekend in kyiv. And so, there is a kind of brutal reminder. Sometimes we’re not very reassured, but we try not to think about it too much. But having said that, I would like to say that, me or the people on my team, those who have arrived now since last year are people who are prepared for this. And I would like to pay tribute to the Ukrainians because I, if there is an air alert and security tells me “Mr. Ambassador, we must go down to the shelter”, I do it. But I don’t worry because my children, they are not here, they are in France with my wife, in Paris. This is a geographically separated position. Ukrainians, including those who work for the embassy, have difficult choices to make. Do I wake my child up in -8 or -10 degrees at 2 a.m. to take him to the metro? Do I put him in the bathtub and hope nothing happens? Do I let him sleep and take the risk? And those are absolutely terrible choices. I think we should not forget them.