The centrist elected official from Tarn went to meet Ukrainian soldiers engaged in the counter-offensive. These men still lack suitable Western equipment, facing the defensive lines put in place by the Russian forces.
He is one of the few French elected officials, if not the only one, to go to Ukraine. Centrist Senator (UC) Philippe Folliot made a new visit to the war-torn country last week, five months after a previous trip. Chairman of the Alliance of Democrats and Liberals group in the NATO Parliamentary Assembly, he traveled to the regions of Zaporijjia and Donetsk alongside his German colleague Marcus Faber and Ukrainian MP Yegor Cherniev. Back in France, the senator gives his impressions to franceinfo on the current military situation and the Western equipment delivered to Ukraine.
Franceinfo: You first went to Zaporijjia, what are the concerns there?
Philippe Folliot: We met Oleksandr Starukh, the governor of Zaporijjia, where the stakes are mainly related to nuclear power. The whole difficulty, for them, is to prepare for the worst, without panicking the population. It is difficult to predetermine the repercussions in the event of an incident in the plant, because they would depend in part on the winds. Moreover, if the counter-offensive is successful, what will happen when there is a change of authority? Will the Russian forces behave responsibly or will they do anything?
As you advanced towards the front line, what western equipment did you see?
We traveled to the Orikhiv region [à une cinquantaine de kilomètres au sud-est de Zaporijjia], near the southern front line. We were in the middle of nowhere, in thickets camouflaged by three of the 47th Brigade’s seven Leopard tanks, each separated by several hundred yards. We were able to see with our own eyes that one of the tanks, announced as neutralized by Russian propaganda, was in fact operational, despite a significant impact. The computer was affected, but it only took a few hours to repair. Ukrainian soldiers who have tried the Leopard feel more protected and no longer want to go back to the Soviet-made T-64s. This model, in our example, would probably have been pulverized.
Have you seen French equipment?
Yes, AMX-10 light tanks. We went to the area of Velyka Novosilka, in the Donetsk region, alongside the 37th Marine Brigade. We weren’t in the trenches, but we heard artillery fire in the background. We got closer to six or seven kilometers, at most. The AMX-10s were hidden in hedgerows, in the middle of vast fields that stretched over hundreds of hectares. Nearby, a harvester was almost normally doing its job.
What do the Ukrainian soldiers say?
The Ukrainians were relatively critical of the elements relating to the French tank. When they went to train in the Marseille area, they had trained on AMX-10s equipped with options, such as communication kits and decoys. But these were not included in the delivered models. The soldiers also mentioned gearbox problems and the lack of spare tires. [ils ne fonctionnent pas sur chenilles]but they are satisfied with the 105 mm gun.
This light armored reconnaissance, in reality, is used more as artillery support, a sort of small Caesar gun. They told us that 38 units had been delivered, which is still positive. When I went there six months ago, there was talk of delivering ten or maybe twenty.
What are the main difficulties for the Ukrainian army?
Russian forces control the airspace, which is a tactical advantage for them. Moreover, the Ukrainian soldiers explained to us that the Russian defense lines were very structured: trenches, then networks of galleries towards bunkers, then anti-tank trenches and dragon’s teeth on the circulation axes. All this with thousands of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines.
>> How Ukrainian forces are trying to find the breach in the middle of Russian minefields
Ukrainians therefore face a kind of wall. They tap in several places, in order to locate the friable place where they will focus their efforts. The great counter-offensive has not yet begun.
Demining is a major issue…
The situation is indeed complicated. The Ukrainian forces are demining at night, meter by meter, with specialized teams. It is a long and tedious job, but it is necessary, because the minesweeping tanks are targeted by drones, artillery and aviation. The soldiers explained to us that the Russians have mined so much that they sometimes jump on their own mines themselves, when the information has not been correctly transmitted by the previous team.
What do Ukrainian forces need today?
They need anti-aircraft defense, such as the Crotale missiles or the French Mamba systems, but also combat aircraft. I told them that we had Mirage 2000s, but the Ukrainian soldiers told us that they were rather inferior to the latest generation Russian planes. They therefore hope for Rafales. They also need artillery, with more Caesar guns, to protect their infantry. When they find the breach, they will also need more heavy tanks.
What is the morale of Ukrainian soldiers?
They are tired. We asked a young man in the National Guard how long he hadn’t seen his family. He answered us: “Since the start of the war”. Despite this, all these soldiers are determined. During my last trip, at the beginning of February, I had met a man named “Magnit”, whom I saw again this time. He told me that they had lost a lot of comrades and that they will now go all the way. That’s the difference between Russian fighters, who don’t know what they’re fighting for, and Ukrainians. The soldiers we met told us that they were fighting for their families and their country, but also for Europe and its values, indirectly.
Is France up to it?
We need to do more, and faster. Emmanuel Macron could comment on the Mirage, for example. At the beginning of January, France had been the first to announce the delivery of light armored vehicles, and this decision had made it possible to unblock the delivery of tanks by other European countries. It could be the same on fighter planes.