“Neither Chains nor Masters”, a film to remind us that “slavery and maroonage are inseparable”

In a slave-holding France, men and women fight to regain their freedom. Simon Moutaïrou paints their portrait through the hero of “Ni chaines Ni maîtres”, played by Ibrahima Mbaye. Interview with the filmmaker and the actor.

Senegalese star Ibrahima Mbaye plays Massamba in the first film by Franco-Beninese filmmaker Simon Moutaïrou, No chains, no masters, to be discovered Wednesday, September 18. In the looks that his character gives shines the determination of a man determined to put an end to the last obstacles to his freedom in this year 1759, on the Isle de France (current Mauritius). Following in the footsteps of his daughter, he flees the plantation on which he is a slave and becomes a runaway negro.

Massamba takes the viewer on a legitimate and thrilling human adventure. On the occasion of the film’s release, Simon Moutaïrou and Ibrahima Mbaye look back with us on their collaboration and the importance of the story they tell with passion.

Franceinfo Culture: Was making this first film about marronage – the act of a slave escaping from his master’s property – an “obsession” for you?
Simon Moutaïrou: Absolutely. As a teenager, I grew up with a lack of representation. My hero was Denzel Washington and in France, I didn’t have images to identify with. Cinema can provide these kinds of images and this feeling of pride. I was lucky enough to work with Ibrahima (Mbaye) on this film, to be able to give the audience the image of this dignified, proud, powerful man who resists and breaks his chains. It was an obsession for me to be able to do that.

The role of Massamba has a political dimension, but also a spiritual one. How did Simon Moutaïrou introduce the character to you? And how did you explore this father-daughter relationship with Anna Diakhere Thiandoum who plays Mati?
Ibrahima Mbaye: At the first reading and the first interview with Simon, everything was clear: I knew where he wanted to go with this character and this film. He transmitted his fiber to me very early on and I strove to reinforce his vision. As for the father-daughter relationship with Mati, it is universal. Everyone can find themselves in it. I think that today it is a fragile relationship. We live in a world where the young girl, the woman is fragile, but she must find her true place in this humanity. That Mati has the idea, first, of wanting to break the chains, is a strong symbol.

This fits well with the society in which women do everything…
Simon Moutaïrou: Especially among the Wolofs [groupe ethnique du Sénégal] whose history I learned from Khadim Sylla, a specialist in Wolof culture. I discovered the power of female politicians, of female warriors in Wolof history. And I wanted to evoke it in the film.

You give liberation, in addition to its political dimension, a real spiritual and cultural dimension. You recall the cosmogony of these Africans reduced to slavery. A rather rare approach in this type of story and which makes the originality of No chains, no masters. Madame la Victoire, too, appeals to her Catholic faith in this manhunt…

Simon Moutaïrou: I am of Yoruba origin [groupe ethnique que l’on retrouve au Bénin, au Nigeria ou au Togo]. Hollywood cinema has demonized African animist religions a lot. When you talk to people about them, they reduce them to black magic. I wanted to show the beauty of it: how a former fetish priest, Massamba, finds the desire to fight again by finding his gods, especially his goddess who is both a spirit and the face of the woman he loved. All my characters are guided by the invisible. It is a hunt, but also a clash between the polytheism of the African continent and Catholic monotheism.

You also put a lot of emphasis on filial relationships in this film, both on the side of the maroons and the slave hunters. Madame La Victoire is helped by these two sons. Why do you insist on this aspect?
Simon Moutaïrou: The film takes place thirty years before the French Revolution. On the front of thought regarding slavery, everything is going up in flames. The younger generations are right against the older ones. In the film, Massamba’s journey is to understand that her daughter was right too. The character played by Benoît Magimel, Eugene Larcenet, who is a slave owner, he faces his son played by Félix Lefebvre, Honoré Larcenet, an abolitionist before his time. He too is right in front of his father. We could say the same thing about the son of Madame La Victoire, who leaves the quest after meeting Massamba’s gaze. He sees it clearly: his humanity is impossible to deny. Slavery is an atrocity and an absurdity.

My script is thus constructed to echo our times. I have two daughters and I find that the younger generation, in its relationship to the climate, to identity, is often right. At least, more than us. I wanted to put this generational conflict at the heart of the film.

We all know a lot about slavery, but the violence in some scenes still makes us jump. What else did you learn, Simon Moutaïrou, while making this film and what did you discover, Ibrahima Mbaye, while playing Massamba?

Ibrahima Mbaye: First, the maroonage. This story taught me a lot about the state of mind and the bravery of all these people. Then, the existence of this Wolof community that lived in Mauritius and whose traces can still be found today on the island. There is a district, the Jolof camp and “Jolof” is nothing other than Wolof. Finally, as for my role, I approached through Massamba the suffering endured by these people reduced to slavery. This nourished me to take up the challenge of embodying them in the purest truth.

Simon Moutaïrou: I surrounded myself with a lot of historians during my research on the film. They allowed me to understand something that I had not grasped the extent of: slavery and maroonage are inseparable. There has always been resistance, revolt. This is something that I really learned while researching for the film. I also learned about the existence of maroon communities. [d’esclaves en fuite]. In the ocean of suffering of slavery, there were really these diverse communities where we could find, as in the film, Malagasy, Wolof or even Yorubas. People found each other and found their culture, through it, their dignity. Resistance was not only done through courage, it was also done through culture.

I also learned about myself and this great actor that is Ibrahima: in this kind of project, we have to go to the end of ourselves. It’s a story that is bigger than us and we are, in a way, its sons. I know that I was on a mission, that I had a main actor who was on a mission. Around us, everyone was looking at us and was sometimes afraid. But we, every evening or every morning, we found ourselves, we didn’t need to talk much, but each of us knew that the other was on a mission and that we had to go to the end together. It’s something that I will never forget.

What did you want to convey with this film?
Simon Moutaïrou: I love Frantz Fanon and he says: “Colonization destroyed the self-love of the colonized.” And where is our self-love? In our history. If we are only taught that we were slaves, where will pride come from? We must talk about the African kingdoms, Dahomey [l’actuel Bénin]… We must remember that with slavery, there has always been maroonage. We need to know our history.