“It would be difficult not to be marked”

(Amos) “You want to know what I think? If it hadn’t been for the tragic event of Joyce Echaquan’s death, well, our report would have been shelved like so many others before it.”

The observation of the former president of the Commission of Inquiry into Relations between Aboriginal Peoples and Certain Public Services, known as the Viens Commission, is clear: the tragic death of the Atikamekw prevented his report from gathering dust.

But reconciliation with First Nations is clearly not at the top of the Legault government’s priority pile. “It never has been and I don’t feel like it is, that’s obvious.”

Jacques Viens grants to The Press his very first interview since he concluded, five years ago this week, that Indigenous people are victims of systemic discrimination in Quebec public services. In an intimate interview, the former judge speaks frankly.

We visit him at his home in his native Amos. Large, brightly colored canvases adorn the walls of the living room and dining room. Here, a work by Virginia Pésémapeo Bordeleau, a Cree from Abitibi. There, geese painted by Dominique Normand, a multidisciplinary Métis artist.

As evidenced by the decor, Jacques Viens remains inhabited by the realities of the First Nations and the Inuit. “It would be difficult not to be marked,” says the former Superior Court magistrate, who traveled all over Quebec from 2016 to 2019.

Even as the years go by, Mr. Viens continues to pay particular attention to the implementation of the 142 “calls to action” in his voluminous report. He also discusses “from time to time” with the minister responsible, Ian Lafrenière.

“I trust him,” says Jacques Viens, who takes a seat at the dining room table. “Now, I’m not sure he still has the support he deserves.” [au gouvernement] ” he says.

In September 2019, Jacques Viens caused a shockwave when he made his investigation report public. His conclusion? The Quebec government had failed to meet the needs of First Nations and Inuit, and they were victims of “systemic discrimination” in Quebec.

Prime Minister François Legault summoned Indigenous leaders in the following days and offered an official apology on behalf of the government at the Salon Bleu.

From the stands, the emotion of the leaders is palpable.

However, Mr. Legault will not acknowledge the existence of systemic discrimination against Indigenous communities. “Why do we apologize if we don’t recognize the problem?” wonders Mr. Viens, still surprised by the government’s reaction at the time.

Yet, in 2016, when he received his mandate from the Couillard government, the federal Truth and Reconciliation Commission had just described the residential school system as “cultural genocide.” “It painted a pretty good picture,” recalls Mr. Viens.

In Quebec, the Viens commission was launched following the broadcast, in 2015, of a shocking report from the program Investigationon Radio-Canada, in which indigenous women alleged having suffered abuse at the hands of police officers from the Sûreté du Québec in Val-d’Or.

The subject is explosive. The police protest, tensions between the communities are exacerbated. When he accepts the mandate, Mr. Viens believes that the investigation will be limited to the region. He has only one condition: that the indigenous leaders have no reservations about his appointment.

“Without that, forget me,” he illustrates.

Ultimately, the commission of inquiry will visit all 11 indigenous nations and more than 765 witnesses will be heard. “I want to say that I have not had any constraints from the government,” Mr. Viens said.

Systemic racism

Five years later, Jacques Viens still criticizes Quebec for not having recognized systemic discrimination from the outset, which continues to harm reconciliation efforts. “Maybe we wouldn’t be talking about systemic racism today,” he says.

L’Abitibien reveals in passing that he never intended to use the expression “systemic racism” in the pages of his report. “In my mandate, I was asked to examine whether there was discrimination […] and in my mind, there is discrimination in the system and racist people. But I don’t associate the system with racist,” he argues.

Although many Indigenous organizations and civil society groups are now calling on the Legault government to recognize systemic racism, Jacques Viens maintains his initial position. “For me, discrimination and racism are not synonymous.”

Embroiled in a crisis following the death of Joyce Echaquan in 2020, the Legault government reconsidered the possibility of recognizing systemic discrimination, based on Mr. Viens’ findings. But it was decided otherwise.

The death of the mother of the Manawan family under a hail of racist insults from the staff of the Joliette hospital had the effect of an “electroshock” in Quebec, Mr. Viens acknowledges.

The tragedy occurred on the anniversary of the submission of his report. At the time, the Legault government was struggling to defend its record. Minister Sylvie D’Amours resigned, and Ian Lafrenière was appointed.

” Without [cette tragédie]the report, it would have been on the shelf, that’s where it ends for me,” Mr. Viens admits bluntly.

“I think Joyce Echaquan has done more to improve the attitude or behaviour towards First Nations and Inuit than the report itself… It affects me,” he continues before stopping. His throat tightens. “I find it appalling.”

Still upset

Jacques Viens’ eyes mist up more than once when he looks back on this chapter of his life. He confides that he asked the video teams of the commission of inquiry not to film him when he had “tears in his eyes.” “There are cases that simply made me cry,” he says.

A story comes to mind. A Cree from Mistissini is hospitalized in Val-d’Or for a respiratory problem. During the night, the nurse accompanies him to the bathroom. A patient who shares the room then asks her what she is doing. “She answers that she is walking her dog,” relates Mr. Viens.

When he accepted the mandate in 2016, Mr. Viens, who had recently retired, already had extensive experience with Aboriginal people. During his career, he practiced in Amos, a town near Pikogan, and in the Cree communities of James Bay and Inuit villages.

It is clear that he and his teams will not “sit in [leurs] offices” if they want to gain the trust of the Aboriginals. He also surrounds himself with several experts and stakeholders from the First Nations to guide him in his work.

“We’re not going to tell them what to do. They know their needs. We’re going to give them the opportunity to express themselves, to explain their needs, their concerns, and we’re going to try to describe them as best we can,” he says. Even today, he doesn’t want to speak on their behalf.

It’s one of the reasons he has declined interviews for the past five years.

Hope for the future

The Québec Ombudsman deplored in 2023 that more than two thirds of the recommendations had still not been implemented satisfactorily by the Legault government.

Flagship “calls to action” such as implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples and deploying a long-term strategy to address housing needs in Indigenous communities have been slow to materialize.

Slow changes also criticized by the chief of the Assembly of First Nations Quebec-Labrador, Ghislain Picard.

Why is it taking so long? “Maybe the people who have the power to decide don’t want to do it,” the former judge suggests. “It’s not easy and I never thought we’d change all this in two days. The damage has been done over 150 years,” he concedes.

He also highlights progress. He cites the work of the Université du Québec en Abitibi-Témiscamingue, which notably created the School of Native Studies, or companies that now take care to train their employees in the realities of the First Nations and the Inuit.

“I know people are much more aware. Could the government do more? I think Mr. Picard gave you the answer. But, individual people, I think you’re going to hear a lot less racism. […] “That’s already a lot,” he said.

If he agrees to speak now, it is precisely to deliver a message of hope: “I remember the mothers, fathers, leaders and elders who came to tell of the hope that their children would live in a better world.” […] Let’s listen, let’s build together.”

His throat tightens again.