Even today, we think of these French people whose houses are flooded in Pas-de-Calais in particular. The decline has begun, but the situation remains delicate, even more delicate, as the cold is forecast this week. We could say that floods happen, but the problem is that in certain municipalities, these phenomena repeat themselves two or three times in a few weeks.
franceinfo: Jean Viard, raises the question of the lack of preparation of our municipalities. Is sociology interested in this question?
Jean Viard: Yes, she is interested in risks and responsibility too. But what is complicated is that the last big flood was that of 2002. We carried out work and as always, we carried out this work at the level of 2002, saying to ourselves, if it starts again, basically, we’re pretty much protected. It turns out that it’s much stronger, and so that’s what’s very complicated.
It’s a bit like nuclear power plants, we say such and such an area, there have already been seismic events. Well, we’ll take ten more, because we don’t know how to do it. With what is happening at the moment, we must understand that we are facing unpredictable things. I don’t know what the next rain will be in this area, what the next fire will be in the Landes or the next Cévennes episode in the Cévennes. So you have to say to yourself: it’s going to be stronger and you have to prepare yourself, including in your head.
Near my house, there is a neighborhood where the houses are on the first floor. We told people: put stakes and underneath you can park your car, but you can’t put a building. There will be floods. So if you live on the first floor, it’s not pleasant, but it’s not impossible. Afterwards there may be problems with public authorities who have not done their job, but I cannot judge that.
But have we sometimes allowed too much building in risk areas?
But that’s the problem. We will each have to take our responsibility. If I want to build a house in a pine forest, no. It’s already been banned for a long time. If I want to see the sea, yes, it’s true that I want to see the sea, but no darling, you won’t be able to see the sea. And if you put pressure on your elected official, he is elected by the people, so if 10 families arrive and say: we want to build there, and that’s 100 votes, the elected official takes it into account.
Does the pressure of wanting to have your own pavilion, these French people who want their house, ultimately create pressure too?
60% of French people live in houses with gardens, this is their main habitat. And the second habitat is the residence. There are 4 million families who have two homes. One in town and one outside of town. And then there are poor people who don’t have a second house or a garden. So it remains in the culture of the French, deeply.
The question is: how are we going to densify the peri-urban area in certain places, instead of having pavilions of 2,000 square meters, we are going to put 300 square meters there, perhaps we can make protective investments, because we will have more houses, more inhabitants, etc. And then elsewhere, we will tell people: no, you cannot there, but two kilometers further, it will be possible. There is no secret, if everyone does not say to themselves: I am responsible, we will not succeed.
In the Netherlands they have fixed the problem a little. In January 1953, there was a deadly flood which left nearly 2,000 dead, and they decided to change everything with dikes and basins. Above all, they rationalized the constructions. In France, we have the impression that politicians, on this subject, are still a little cautious, because ultimately, politically, it is explosive to say: you will no longer be able to do that?
Yes, well, it’s certain that if there were 2,000 deaths, we could more easily move populations. But let’s not wish for it. So, what happened in the polders in Holland was absolutely dramatic, when it is absolutely dramatic, we accept it. It’s like the great pandemic. We agreed to lock ourselves in because we were terrified of being sick. This is why I insist on the fact that everyone must be responsible, including elected officials, we will have to step up and say: no, I’m sorry, we are not making a subdivision here. Including promoters.
So we are faced with a real question. So, here, since 95, we have determined the flood zones, before that did not exist, but it is not only the flood zones, the fire zones are a huge problem of the future. Look in Canada at the number of houses that burned.
So it’s a question of anticipation and in reality, it’s very political?
But it’s very political. At the same time, the problem is that what we built before, we may have ignored these rules. So for that, we will have to assume collective responsibility. And above all, we must prevent others from continuing. These are two slightly different subjects, because whoever built a pavilion in 92, it was not declared a flood zone. Today it is declared a flood zone but he built his house. How do we do ? Shall we demolish it? Who pays ? This is what we do in some places. Remember the floods there were in the South West a few years ago.
So indeed, we are going to demolish a few houses, it will be done. There, indeed, too, we are almost below sea level. Let’s each say to each other, in fact, what am I doing to no longer put pressure to do things that we won’t be able to keep.