Emmanuel Macron today chaired the November 11 ceremonies at Place Charles-de-Gaulle in Paris, and under the Arc de Triomphe, for the 105th anniversary of the armistice of the First World War.
As part of today’s November 11 commemorations, the end of the First World War – it is now more than a century ago – we also salute the memory of the victims of the two world wars and, since a law in February 2012, of all those who died for France. The victims of 14/18 and this terrible trench warfare still remain something very present in many families. We talk about it with sociologist Jean Viard.
franceinfo: As we have said, Jean Viard, almost a million and a half deaths and a huge number of injured in France.
Jan Viard: Yes, for people of my generation, the war of 14-18, these were the shells that we had on the edge of the chimneys, with the copper or brass bases, decorative objects, but they were also memory objects. I knew my two grandparents well who were artillerymen in 14-18 and who served throughout the war, they were both in Verdun. And there was one who saved the other’s life. And they decided to see each other once a year, and then later, one had a girl, the other had a boy, and the two children got married. So, I have an ambivalent relationship because there is mourning, and I hate wars, it’s monstrous. And at the same time, there is victory, there is what happens afterwards.
And what is striking is that for someone of my generation, my grandparents did Verdun. My father was a volunteer in 39, there was the Algerian war, etc. We can clearly see that there are wars where we won, we call it a victory, a victory over German nationalism, so we sing about them. And then there are wars where we are a little defeated, 1939 for example, those like my father who were volunteer soldiers, they never talked about it because victory was resistance, or it was Leclerc in Africa, or de Gaulle, of course.
Algeria is the same, most of us, the fathers of Algeria, are fathers who had children in the 60s, so in fact, their children are still largely alive, but they have heard very little about it. So that’s why in the collective story, there are positive wars because we won, and then silent wars, because we lost.
So the memory of this First War is very present in many families. And then there is for all other French people, and especially the youngest, this vision of commemorations as something perhaps a little dusty, which does not necessarily have a lot of meaning, which is not very concrete . Why are these commemorations important?
First of all, what is important is the tribute to the fighters, it is the tribute to the dead. War is part of societies, it is like violence. Obviously, they must be limited. But there is private violence, there is violence in public spaces. And the role of the army or the role of the police is that this violence remains bearable, because completely eliminating violence is a very beautiful utopia. So these commemorations are important, even if, it must be said, those of November 11 often no longer bring together a lot of people.
After the end of the Cold War in 1989, we all believed that wars were over. Military budgets have collapsed, and now they are going back up at full speed. We are putting in 2000 billion of money, on a global scale, and if we postpone military service, it will be a military service, it will not be a social service. We are in this logic. We can clearly see what is happening in Ukraine, and Ukraine, 40 million inhabitants, was the France of 1914. There were also 40 million inhabitants, it was roughly the same size.
After what is complicated, do we need to change the dates? President Giscard d’Estaing had removed the commemoration of May 8, which was the commemoration of the end of the Second World War, and it was postponed afterwards. Wouldn’t it be time for there to be a day of homage to the fighters and heroes of the wars, including because we are so close to Germany today that commemorating twice century-old wars with Germany, is this a good idea in the European Union?
And you, would you like to go further, and talk about all the military deaths who are committed to their country, who are in the European Union?
Including the resistance fighters, and I think that at some point, it is very important to support the army, moreover, the French support them, even if most of us no longer have this commitment, but it is obvious that a society must defend itself, it must impress enough so that there is no war. So in a changing world, because war today is increasingly technological, although what we see in Ukraine is a bit reminiscent of the war of 14-18. I tend to think that commemorations must evolve. There should be an Earth Day, it’s a major subject. There should be a day in memory of the fighters, of respect for the fighters, but not necessarily one of the dates of victory over Germany, that would be normal.
You know, in France, there are 11 public holidays, there are 6 days linked to Christians, five days linked to collective history, January 1 and July 14. Therefore, Christian culture on public holidays remains hegemonic, dominant. There is no commemoration for the Jewish community, which is perhaps a question we could ask right now, after what happened in Israel, and after tomorrow’s demonstration. There is no commemoration for Muslim worship. For them, it might be floating, since their date depends on the Moon. And then there could be commemorations for other phenomena. But it’s good that nature is celebrated and that the fighters are celebrated, but let’s try to turn the page a little on the wars within Europe.
Well, that was a bit of the idea 10 years ago anyway, when we transformed this day of November 11 for all the soldiers who died for France?
It’s going in the right direction and that’s very good, but in memory, 14-18 deeply traumatized French society, it remains in families. Me, every time I go to a village, I make the effort to read all the names on the war memorial. I consider it a mark of respect. And that’s why there are all the names. And we can see very clearly that there are fewer names for 39-45. There are no names of the Jews who were taken in the Shoah, which could also be on the war memorials, because they are victims of Nazism, and victims of the war.