He says it bluntly: Georges Salines would like a “live chat” between him and the defendants. These men are however suspected of being involved, to varying degrees, in the terrorist attack at the Bataclan, where his daughter Lola was killed, aged 28, on November 13, 2015. Georges Salines first told the special Assize Court of Paris.
“I would like to meet those of the defendants who, if convicted, would have the courage to accept such a meeting.”
Georges Salines, October 22, 2021during his testimony
Three months later, he reiterated his wish on Twitterthen with franceinfo. “Everyone could express themselves in a prepared, delimited framework, without the issue of judgment or media witnesses”he explains. VSThis approach, notably inspired by Canada, is called restorative justice. Still unknown in France, it appears in the law of August 15, 2014 and results in a circular three years later.
“The goal is not to end up forgiving and kissing each othersweeps Georges Salines. The interest for me is not to remain in a desire for revenge, to assure myself and to reassure myself on the fact that we can recognize each other in our common humanity. He is not the only one, among the civil parties in the trial of the attacks of November 13, to advocate this dialogue. “Your sentence will not repair me and it will not appease me, but it will not prevent me either, if you wish one day, including in prison, to go and talk to you”declared at the hearing, at the end of September, Claude-Emmanuel Triomphe, hit on November 13, 2015 by a burst of Kalashnikov inside the café A la bonne beer.
From the dock, Salah Abdeslam did not remain deaf to the invitation. “I heard the testimonies of the victims. I found them sincere, interesting and courageous”affirmed, on February 9, during his first interrogation on the merits, the only member still alive of the commandos which made 131 dead in Paris and Saint-Denis (Seine-Saint-Denis).
Salah Abdeslam: “I will be ready to meet certain victims if it can help them and not in exchange for a sentence adjustment”. The accused also cites the testimony of the “rugby player” and his flying sister #13november
— Catherine Fournier (@cathfournier) February 9, 2022
No restorative justice measure gives the right to compensation of any kind. The process is strictly supervised. It is voluntary and includes five “guiding principles”. Thus, in order to participate, the perpetrators of offenses must have acknowledged, in advance, the facts for which they are accused or sentenced.
What prompted Georges Salines to consider more Sofien Ayari, one of Salah Abdeslam’s companions on the run, as a potential interlocutor. “At this stage of the trial, he does not declare himself innocent and does not seek to find false excuses”, says Lola’s father. When Salah Abdeslam shows himself to be more ambivalent, or does not hesitate to fall into provocation and insolence, during a second interrogation, on March 15. Or disconcert with his versatile attitude, exercising his right to silence and then breaking it, as he did on March 30, when he was questioned about the moments leading up to the attacks.
However, the question of the sincerity of the participants is fundamental. “It is only during a preparation that we can evaluate it”, assures franceinfo Robert Cario, professor emeritus of criminology at the University of Pau and founder of the French Institute for Restorative Justice (IFJR). Benefit from a restorative justice measure, it is possible, “at all stages of the procedure”but it cannot be improvised.
For detainee/victim meetings “who are not concerned by the same case”, three individual interviews are organized beforehand with each participant (perpetrator and victim), before starting the five group meetings. But if it is a direct meeting between the perpetrator and the victim of an offence, the preparation is longer: from six months to a year. Three to six weeks after this type of meeting, called “restorative mediation”, an individual interview closes the procedure.
“The process can be as restorative as the encounter.”
Robert Cario, founder of the French Institute for Restorative Justiceat franceinfo
Victims can end it at any time, especially if they feel they have the answers to their questions. They can also decide to dialogue in another form: by mail, through a video… “We work from the expectations of the participants”, sums up Robert Cario, who sees this as the key to success. The prisoner may also choose to discontinue the preparation. “A perpetrator of domestic violence once said to me, ‘I’m not ready to make room for this victim in my head'”tells franceinfo Héloïse, facilitator and coordinator of the IFJR.
“We ask open-ended questions: ‘What happens if you don’t get to the end of the testimony?’ If we are told ‘I want to tell them my anger’, we bounce back: ‘How to say it?’ ‘What if we don’t offer you an apology?’ We suggest different scenarios, to consider confronting ‘a closed door’, or other types of reactions”says Héloïse. “We have a canvas in our head to accompany everyone’s fears.”
“We were so prepared that no one wanted to give up after the third session”, abounds Martine, contacted by franceinfo. This 69-year-old woman considers that it gave her the strength to go to a remand center for a meeting between prisoners and victims in 2013 and 2014, when restorative justice was at the experimental stage. However, since a neighbor attacked her on the stairs of her building, she had “afraid of everything”.
“The big gate, the noise of the keys, the many cameras…” Martine’s first contact with the prison is anchored in her memory. At his side, two other victims: a father whose son was killed and a woman raped by one of his friends. Organized in the visiting room dedicated to families, a brightly colored room, the meeting with three perpetrators of offenses similar to what the victims had suffered, was held in the presence of a facilitator from the federation France Victims, of a member of the Penitentiary Integration and Probation Service (Spip) and two representatives of civil society.
“We were in a circle. The inmates came straight at us, the three of us huddled together.”
Martine, victimat franceinfo
“There was a moment of silence. It was not won”, says Martine, who remembers being terrified. The atmosphere relaxes thanks to the intervention of the facilitator and a short coffee break. “The youngest inmates came to see me. He had a soft voice and spoke to me about his mother, it touched me because I am a mother”, testifies Martine. Little by little, detainees and victims open up about their lives turned upside down by the acts committed, the consequences for their families. The authors become aware of the harm caused, an essential step to be reintegrated into society and avoid falling back.
“It allowed us to see them as men, human beings who no longer scared us.”
Martine, victimat franceinfo
“For the first time, they thought about the seriousness of their actions and regretted it. It did us good. We felt lighter”, breathes Martine. The sexagenarian experiences a “appeasement”which she had not felt at the time of the conviction of her attacker. “I understood that a trial is useless for the victims”, she says. That of November 13 is the typical example according to her: “It’s very frustrating to see that some terrorists don’t talk.”
A feeling shared by Georges Salines. “Many victims come to the trial with the wish to speak to the accused. But we cannot: we have to turn to the president of the assize court. And then there is the media issue, and that of the verdict”, he develops. However, not all the civil parties feel capable of considering a face-to-face meeting with the accused. “One of my clients understands the idea and the impetus, but it’s beyond her strength”explains Frédérique Giffard, which represents about twenty survivors of the attacks of November 13. The lawyer is in favor of the expansion of restorative justice, but for sexual and intra-family violence, with perpetrators who know the victims. And imagined her rather as a “alternative” to imprisonment, early 2021 in Release.
In fact, in France, despite what the law provides, restorative justice tools have not yet been used in terrorism cases. Unlike Anglo-Saxon countries or certain European neighbours, such as Spain, which experimented with the victims of ETA. “For many, it is incongruous to imagine that a perpetrator of homicide can meet the relatives of the person killed, or that a robber dialogues with a victim”regrets Robert Cario.
“It’s a whole judicial culture that we are changing.”
Robert Cario, founder of the French Institute for Restorative Justiceat franceinfo
For his collaborator Héloïse, the important thing is to respond to all those who wish to benefit from restorative justice. “There are a thousand and one ways to rebuild yourself, so you have to be able to accompany, she persists. We told Georges Salines: when the day comes, we will be there to answer his call with our feet.”