The Forum de l’islam de France (Forif) is holding its first meeting today, Saturday, February 5, with Muslim representatives chosen by the State, whose roadmap we already know. They will have to work on four priority themes: the professionalization of imams, the organization of chaplaincies, the security of places of worship and the application of the law against separatism.
With Jean Viard, sociologist, research director at the CNRS and old LREM candidate in the legislative elections in the 5th constituency of Vaucluse in 2017, today we are talking about the creation of this Forif. The CFCM has been criticized for not sufficiently representing the Muslims of France, for being only a forum for dialogue with the State.
franceinfo: Why is it important for Muslims to be represented?
John Viard: Muslims in France are between 4 and 5 million practitioners, approximately, 6 to 7% of the population. And then, there are probably one or two million people of Muslim culture, but who have become completely secularized. So they never go to the mosque, to give an order of magnitude. But it is a very sensitive subject in our society, everyone understands it, and which has increased in sensitivity since the attacks of 2015. So, we must not hide all that.
Afterwards, the question is that with the Catholic culture – historically dominant – we are used to an institution with which the State discusses. The problem with Islam is that it is not a hierarchical structure like the Catholic Church has become, so one can become an imam, the mosques do not all have the same status, etc. It’s very decentralized in a way, and at the same time, it’s very organized by the countries of origin. The Turkish government is putting in money, the Algerian government, the Moroccan government, everyone is trying to keep their nationals, their dual nationals. There is this whole movement, very autonomous, and on the other side, major strategic interests.
The problem of the State is that it has a Roman culture, it needs to discuss, because the question of the place of Muslims is first of all that they have mosques. These mosques – there are 2 500 – these are often very discreet places.
If you like, we haven’t completely accepted in France that there is a new religion that has a place in society. But take Marseille, there are about 200,000 Muslims. Each time there is a project for a large mosque, there are lawsuits, appeals, we don’t succeed. You have 200,000 Muslims who don’t have a symbolic place of pride. Because it always looks like Muslims are just passing through. No, the Muslims are in France, they have to be organized little by little.
So, the State’s request is legitimate, but complicated, because obviously, we cannot represent very decentralized structures and at the same time, we do not want to integrate foreign operators into this process.
What is the Islam of France, if it is not synonymous with all the Muslims of France?
The problem is like all people who are of Catholic origin: most no longer believe in God, so no longer go to Church, if you will. So it’s the same question, you shouldn’t mix up people who have been brought up in a culture, and then people who are religious practitioners. Let’s say that there is a Muslim culture present in France. And then there are religious practitioners who are about 2/3 of the cultural community.
But what is an Islam of France, is it an Islam 100% compatible with all the values of the Republic, is that the idea?
First of all, it would be an Islam that accepts secularism, that is to say that accepts that religions are obviously free in this country, but that these religions are free in a space that is secular, that is to say that the Republic is above religion for the organization of life in common. It is nevertheless an absolutely central idea. And then, on the other side, it is an Islam of France, that is to say, which decides in France with French people speaking French. And so, we are not actually negotiating with a Turk, an Algerian or a Moroccan.
Precisely, it is interesting since one of Forif’s priorities is the professionalization of imams. Should we speed up on training? Is it central to putting an end in particular to the consular Islam you were talking about?
Yes, it’s definitely important because – let’s be clear – there is a battle against radical Islamism. So there is a political battle with religious extremism. But this battle, a large part of Muslims are also fighting it because most Muslims are not Islamists.
This battle, how is it fought in terms of values? And let’s be direct, how do we conduct it vis-à-vis young people, how do we conduct it vis-à-vis disadvantaged young people, how do we conduct it vis-à-vis the young people in certain neighborhoods which we have not or very little taken care of, and with respect to young people who have not been given personal perspectives in French society? We haven’t been good.