an essential documentary by the great reporter Kamal Redouani in replay on France 5

Reporting in Tripoli, Libya, with a good fixer is always possible but will only give a partial view of the situation. In a fragmented country, journalist and filmmaker Kamal Redouani went from one fragment to another to capture the whole. Libya, disappearance of a state is a film of rare power, broadcast on France 5 last Sunday (Nov 14) to be replayed.

Éric Valmir: The strength of the film is to deal with all the fragments of a fragmented society and a subject that is just as fragmented. How did you manage this tour de force? Have an entry point in each militia?

Kamal Redouani: Libya is a difficult country to tell and analyze. My aim in this film was to describe the foreign interference, and its impact on the country. And for that in Libya, it is not enough to have a fixer or authorizations from the government in place, it is necessary to know those who really run the Libyan regions. They are the ones who give you – even if it is unofficial – the authorization to work and to film.

It is also outside the big Libyan cities that we can really understand what is happening in Libya. I have spent years traveling this country. I succeeded in creating solid links there which give me access to images, evidence, but also to personalities who often remain in the shadows. By regularly covering the Libyan wars, I have also acquired the respect of several militia leaders. All these parameters, plus a little luck, allowed me to conduct my investigation and make this film.

Before leaving, do you have the plan of the film in mind or does it appear at random from your meetings?

In the beginning, there is always an intention. A common thread that allows you to dig in the same direction and avoid scattering. But for my part, it is always the terrain that dictates the way forward. It is human stories – sometimes micro-stories – that embody the great story. Succeeding in telling the great story through that of a character is essential for me.

For example: Tarhouna, a small town located 80 km from Tripoli, was not on the program of my shoot. But the discovery of a mass grave in this city which is the birthplace of a hero of the revolution prompted me to go there. On the spot, I had to find the ideal character to describe the Libyan chaos. The son of the hero of the revolution was obvious to me. Her father has been kidnapped. His sister was mutilated and he lived for 7 years under the yoke of a bloodthirsty militia. The dramatic story of this young man alone embodies the chaotic history of an entire country.

Are you surprised by what you discover in the field or the documentation work done with your contacts upstream gives you a precise overview of reality?

I rarely have access to my contacts upstream. I have of course a precise idea of ​​what is going on in the country where I will be filming, but I never know in advance what evidence I can collect. It is once there, and especially once I manage to convince my interlocutors of the merits of my work, that I manage to obtain unpublished and often confidential evidence.

The tradition in the Middle East and in the Arab world in general requires long discussions before concretely addressing the subject for which we are here. You have to be patient. In the West, we are more direct, more pragmatic. In the Arab world, we like to discuss, gauge the person in front of us before opening the doors to them.

Take for example the images of the meeting of the Turkish Minister of Defense with the former Libyan Minister of the Interior. We discover these two statesmen discussing military aid in a country under embargo for 40 years. These images were filmed in the very heart of Libyan power. Before my shoot, I never imagined I could have them. It took me years to build relationships that allow me to know the existence of these images and hours of discussions to be able to acquire them.

Your investigation into the arms in Libya is thorough. How did you manage it?

I started with the bombing of a school in Tripoli where 26 young people lost their lives. From the fragments of the bombs, I identified the drone responsible for this massacre. Once the drone was identified, I went back in time, step by step, to find out which countries had acquired this drone.

For this, I relied on several sources. First, the official investigation conducted by the UN. It was my first lead. It was unfortunately incomplete and did not identify the culprit of this crime. Then, it was a group of young Libyans that I had known since the Sirte war against Daesh in 2016, who gave me valuable information that completed the UN investigation. But once again it is sources that I cannot cite which provided me with essential documents which allowed me to prove that only the United Arab Emirates had acquired this drone which struck the school.

Once the precise dates were in hand, with the help of Aurélien Biette, my chief editor, we spent hours looking for satellite images from the time that proved the presence of these latest generation weapons in a country under embargo. for 40 years. In the end, when we superimpose this information with the sorrow of a father who lost his child because of this drone, we understand how the decisions made by states to defend their interests are sometimes revolting.

Ghassan Salamé has resigned from his functions, is that enough to explain his free speech? We have never heard him speak with so much sincerity and determination …

Ghassan Salamé was indeed unexpectedly sincere. I don’t think the mere fact that he stepped down is enough to explain his speech in the film. I believe he is a man of conviction. He is a man who fought to bring peace to Libya. He is a man who has suffered the cynical play of the great powers and I felt during our interview that he had not however given up.

He wants that to change and for that he points the finger at the dysfunction of an organization such as the UN. He does not hesitate to underline the interference of the great of this world in Libyan affairs. I really have great respect for this man who did a wonderful job in Libya. For me, who has been closely following the Libyan issue for years, his resignation is a great loss for the UN and an obstacle to peace in Libya.

You, Kamal Redouani, after all these interviews and meetings, what do you keep of this report in Libya?

Every time I pack up a country at war, I feel like I am abandoning those who have helped and supported me in my work. The looks of these men and women that I have met haunt me for a long time. We sometimes wonder what our work is for. What is the point of continuing to investigate, sometimes at the risk of his life, the crimes committed thousands of kilometers from us? But to abandon these peoples is also to leave them at the mercy of whoever wants to.

The world is cynical, but it is not inevitable. We are lucky to live in a country where speech is free, we are lucky to have a public service that programs documentaries that tell about the world, so, it’s up to us to exploit this freedom as it should to move forward law, freedom and democracy.

And how do you see tomorrow?

I am optimistic. It is my driving force in life. I deeply believe in justice and freedom. I believe that the Libyan people will come to live in peace. Libyan youth yearn for that. The road to democracy may be long, but it will end. But it is still necessary that foreign interference ceases and that financial interests do not make us forget the essential: life.