Agnès Thibault-Lecuivre, head of the IGPN, evokes Thursday on franceinfo, videos which “demonstrate a use of force” by the police against demonstrators. The IGPN will propose sanctions to the prefect of police.
Agnès Thibault-Lecuivre, head of the IGPN, the general inspectorate of the national police, indicated Thursday April 20 on franceinfo that she was going “propose sanctions to the prefect of police” against the Brav-M unit who had threatened and humiliated a group of young people in Paris on the night of March 20 to March 21 during a spontaneous demonstration against the pension reform. She said to herself “extremely shocked” by what she heard in an audio recording taken without the knowledge of the brigade. In particular, we hear a policeman directly threatening a young person: “Next time you’ll get in an ambulance”, he had launched. In addition, the boss of the police force indicated that the IGPN had been seized of “59 judicial investigations”mainly in Paris since the beginning of the mobilization against the pension reform. “We have a restoration of order which is made complex due to the extremely violent radicalization of individuals, and a use of force by the police which can lead to complaints”she explained.
>> Referral, investigation, sanctions … Four questions about the IGPN, seized after accusations of violence by the Brav-M
franceinfo: It has been three months since the protest against the pension reform began. How many surveys are there on your desk?
Agnes Thibault-Lecuivre: We have been seized of 59 judicial inquiries, mainly in Paris, but not only. This figure shows that there are videos that deserve our expertise, to analyze what happened before, what happened after. These videos demonstrate the use of force. Is this use of force legitimate and illegitimate? There are complaints from demonstrators who consider that there has been violent action against them. It is up to us to demonstrate whether the use of force is in accordance with the law or not.
When there is no video, there is no investigation?
No way ! There may be complaints without video. Our investigations should not be reduced to videos alone. We do very meticulous cross-checking work. We will look for the police radio tapes, we will look for all the videos which can be private videos, but also public videos. We will also seek to find witnesses. All the elements are necessary for our investigations, not only the video. It would be too simple because otherwise everyone can be an investigator.
Has there been an acceleration of police investigations since the use of 49.3 as asserted by the Defender of Rights?
The acceleration is to be highlighted in view of a change in the demonstrations, with a radicalization of certain individuals. We have a restoration of order which is made complex by the extremely violent radicalization of individuals, with the use of force by the police which can lead to complaints. But again, whoever is the victim of a use of force, it may be a legitimate use. It is extremely important that we do this investigative work. Of course, we have 59 legal proceedings today, that does not mean 59 convictions. This is all the investigative work that we must carry out.
How do you react when you hear the sound recording captured without the knowledge of the Brav-M unit which had threatened and humiliated a group of young people in March during a spontaneous demonstration against the pension reform?
As a citizen, as I had already said, I am extremely shocked. What is expected of the police? Even more in a conflict, in a context of mistrust vis-à-vis the state? It is an example. That was not the case that day. We were seized the same evening of the revelation of this recording in the media by the prefect of police of an administrative investigation under the duty of reaction of the administration, which is fundamental. This administrative investigation, I am about to submit the conclusions to the prefect of police.
What are your conclusions ?
We transcribed this recording. We asked the hierarchical authority for the reports of the agents. Moreover, I would like to point out that we had no difficulty obtaining these reports. We then did a lot of cross-checking work. To which agent can or cannot be attributed this or that failure. It is all this work that has been done. Shortcomings which will, for some, result from behavior quite contrary to the expected exemplarity.
Does this mean that you will demand sanctions?
Even so, as the hierarchical Authority pointed out, it was police officers who were at the end of a particularly complex vacation in a context of restoring tense order, that in no way authorizes, that in no way justifies having a behavior that is contrary to good behavior, contrary to the exemplarity that must be expected in all circumstances from the police vis-à-vis the population. I confirm that we are going to propose sanctions to the prefect of police.
Last week in Paris, probably during a chase with the police, three minors riding the same scooter fell. A young girl has since been between life and death. The lawyer for these three young people claims that the police deliberately hit the scooter. Do you have any elements that confirm or invalidate this thesis?
We were seized by the Paris prosecutor’s office as part of a judicial investigation. As I speak to you, investigations are underway. Again and again to achieve the manifestation of the truth, to shed light on the facts that are denounced. It is to make observations, of course both on the police vehicle and on the scooter on which the three young people were. It’s going to be a certain number of auditions, more cross-checking work. If there are responsibilities to be established, we must provide all the elements of evidence useful to the judicial authority so that it can then decide whether or not to prosecute police officers who have committed criminal offences.
Since 2014, all police officers are supposed to wear an identification number, the Rio number. We see that this is not always the case. For what reasons ?
The code of ethics of police officers and gendarmes indicates this very clearly, this number must be worn by the police. In the vast majority, this number is ported. You then have cases, in particular in maintaining order or taking into account the outfits, taking into account the shields, the port of the Rio is not always seen in an obvious way. But to overcome this difficulty, you have markings on the helmets, on the outfits to be able to identify.
Have you ever had difficulty identifying a police officer?
It could happen. I’m not going to tell you otherwise, but the Rio number doesn’t have to be the alpha and omega. It is important to underline this. The Council of State, moreover, recalled this. The objective is that the user of the national police can know which police officer he is dealing with and we the IGPN, to be able to identify administrative shortcomings in order to be able to propose to the judicial authority to characterize a criminal offence. Obviously we have to identify him and that is also why our relations with all the police employment departments are particularly close to arrive at this identification.