Posted at 12:00 a.m.
Q. You met Vladimir Putin four times in all when he was in the KGB. What impression do you keep?
R. The impression of someone insignificant, quite modest, normal, nothing extraordinary. What is extraordinary – and that, I felt it during our first meeting [Jirnov a été « cuisiné » par Poutine en 1980] – is that he is a careerist capable of anything to achieve his goal. He is unscrupulous.
PHOTO PROVIDED BY EDITIONS ALBIN MICHEL
Sergei Jirnov, former KGB spy exiled in France
How could someone so “insignificant” stay in power for more than 20 years? Good strategist?
It is a myth that he is a great strategist. Putin has not built his conquest of power. He was thrown there by people who counted on him. He knew how to be in the right place at the right time. Putin missed his career in the KGB. He wanted to be a spy overseas, and it didn’t work out. He was a helpful and efficient functionary, but he has no stature. He was lucky, that’s all. But he was skilful in the organization of power. He knows how to surround himself with people who are indebted to him and puff their noses to conquer his favors.
Obviously, you don’t have a very high opinion of him.
Think again. I just want to bust the myth. He is mediocre, but at the same time, he is a genius of Machiavellianism, a genius of conspiracy, a genius in the privatization of power. But look at his war in Ukraine. He commits fault after fault. He was wrong about himself, about his army, about Ukraine, about Ukrainians, about the West, about Europe.
Do you think he can win the war in Ukraine?
Putin will never defeat Ukraine with conventional weapons. He can destroy a few cities and conquer territories, but after that he cannot control them. Ukrainians will fight to the last to defend their land. The danger is when he realizes that he is losing or not earning enough. He is capable of using nuclear weapons.
You ask the question in your book: is he crazy enough to do it?
Inside Ukraine, yes. He may realize that the use of such a weapon will permanently cut him off from the geopolitical map of the world. The problem is that we are not at all sure that it is still rational. All these stories of denazification, if he believes in them, he is sick. And if he doesn’t believe it, he’s a bastard.
What is your analysis of the current situation?
Already, we can say that Putin failed his war, since he wanted to conquer Ukraine in 10 days… As a result, the Ukrainians had the possibility of regaining control. The Russians strike in a more concentrated, stronger way, but the Ukrainians receive more and more Western military aid, and that pushes us towards a war of stalemate.
We still have the impression that the Russian army is advancing inexorably…
It is progressing, yes, but at what cost? If it loses 10,000 men and 50,000 shells every time it wants to take 5 or 10 kilometers, that’s bad progress. They may be relentless, but they move forward inch by inch. They took two months to conquer Sievierodonetsk. Even if the Russian military arsenal is very large, they will run out of resources.
How to explain such a slow progression?
The bad strategy, the inefficiency of the army. Putin prepared his war very poorly. He is playing his regime, because if he loses, officially or not, it risks creating the situation in which part of the people and the elites will want to replace him. He is protected. But historical statistics tell us that any dictator ends badly, overthrown by his own entourage.
You worked in the KGB for almost eight years. You resigned in 1992. Why did you go into exile in France?
The Russian secret service began to rebuild itself two or three years after the end of the KGB. They wanted to recover the people who had left, like me. We got a little angry because I ridiculed them to cut ties with this past for good. They wanted revenge. In the winter of 2001, I suffered an illness that strongly resembled poisoning.
Today you openly criticize Putin’s regime. Do you think the Russian secret services are still watching you?
Absolutely. I always feel threatened. But I’m used to it. I take precautions. In general, I pay attention to what I eat, what I drink, where I go and how I get there. But it goes without saying that I will not give you the details!
The gear
Sergei Zhirnov
Editions Albin Michel
220 pages