“We carried out a study to begin to make calculations on the risks of replacement, by works of artificial intelligence, of works created by humans. And we arrive at a figure which is terrible: 27% of creators would disappear“, alert Tuesday June 4 Cécile Rap-Veber, general director of the Society of Authors, Composers and Music Publishers (Sacem). And since artificial intelligence “rework” And “diluted“original works to the point that they can no longer be identified, the question of copyright and remuneration is even more delicate.
Furthermore, uA streaming tax was recently adopted by Parliament as part of the 2024 budget, to finance musical creation. For Cécile Rap-Veber, what matters,”it is above all the way in which it will be distributed and how it will ultimately participate in the growth of our ecosystem“. She adds that it is a good idea to encourage “the emergence and export of our French champions who, thanks to the globalization of platforms, finally have an opportunity to reach an audience across the world“.
Franceinfo: Singer Calogero said he was scandalized after the RN’s use of his song 1987, during his meeting on Sunday for the European elections. Do you understand his anger?
What is very important to know is that a composer, a creator, a performer retains all of his moral rights. This is not something that he cedes, for example, to Sacem. So, fortunately, Calogero is completely free to decide whether he considers that a use of his work infringes his moral rights. This is what he expressed, this is what he thinks. And so, in this context, he has actions that he can take while obviously demonstrating the extent of his damage.
“Calogero is completely free to decide what he does with his moral rights. He is the only one who can decide.”
Cécile Rap-Veberon franceinfo
This raises the question of the use of songs without the authorization of their author. A question that is all the more crucial in the age of artificial intelligence and in particular generative AI. We have seen the appearance of larger-than-life deep fakes, the best known being a fake song by Drake and The Weeknd. Does this phenomenon worry you?
This phenomenon worries us. But I almost want to tell you that as long as we can still identify what sources artificial intelligences were inspired by, ultimately, you can track down, you can prosecute, you can attack for parasitism or counterfeiting. What will be much more challenging for us in the future, very close in fact, because we already see the results, is that artificial intelligences need to feed on pre-existing works, in particular all works of Sacem. She aspires to them and finally, she manages to produce new works at the end of the process.
This is exactly what happened with this new title, since the author, Ghostwriter977, with this song, generated millions of views. This raises the question of copyright itself to a new copyright.
Yes. So, as it is still strongly inspired by pre-existing works, this is where he will surely have to share. The question that arises is from the moment when you would have artificial intelligences which rework, dilute so much the original works which they originally used, that we are no longer able to find exactly which works are on which we should remunerate the original creators. So, what are we doing? Sacem was the first company in the world to exercise its right of opposition, known as “opt out”. That is to say, we have notified all artificial intelligence companies that if they were to train on our Sacem repertoire, they were now prohibited from doing so, unless they had a license with us. .
Is that the case ? Do they require licenses?
Obviously, they never ask for anything. You can imagine that there is no broadcaster who comes directly to Sacem. But on the other hand, we started to enter into discussions with some of them. Sacem, in fact, has this advantage that for ten years now, it has become the world leader in digital. However, it will not have escaped your notice that artificial intelligence is mainly developed today by Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Méta, who are already people we interact with on a daily basis. So, obviously, we started talking with all of these companies.
But in the meantime, do you see the proliferation of works that are produced without authorization, based on existing works?
We don’t see them yet. However, we conducted a study with our sister company, which is called Gema in Germany, to begin to make calculations on the risks of replacement, by works of artificial intelligence, of works created by humans. And we unfortunately arrive at a figure which is terrible since it would be 27% of creators who would disappear, which represents approximately 2.7 billion euros cumulatively within five years for only the French and the Germans. , so you imagine on a global level.
“What I cannot fully understand today is which of these works were created solely by artificial intelligence, because at the moment, they are still submitted by human beings.”
Cécile Rap-Veberon franceinfo
The streaming tax was put in place to finance musical creation. The Spotify platform is already announcing an increase in its subscriptions of 0.13 euros per month from next month. Was this tax a good idea?
The future will tell. Because it is above all the way in which it will be distributed and how it will ultimately contribute to the growth of our ecosystem. Since even if today, we can be satisfied with the fact that there is streaming, there is still a penetration rate in France which is very low, we are talking about 17%, which is far below this which takes place in England or the United States.
Except that in the meantime, Spotify is increasing its subscriptions.
That’s very good news.
“We’ve been asking Spotify to increase its subscriptions for years.”
Cécile Rap-Veberon franceinfo
They were still below market compared to players like Apple and like Deezer in the United States. You should still know that they have just increased for the second year, bringing their subscription to $11.99, and there is no streaming tax in the United States.
We also see retaliatory measures: Spotify is absent from festivals this summer.
Yes, I found it very sad. And then at the same time, I found that there was very good news. Spotify has just published these global results with a billion profits. So I am convinced that he will be able to form new partnerships again.
Sacem publishes its financial results. They are good: 1.5 billion for 2023, an increase of 5%, a third for digital, but at the same time an impoverishment of the profession.
So why ? Because today, the methods of creation have evolved enormously. You have creators who continue to earn their living in roughly the same way for ten years on what we call music for images. Everything that is audiovisual is quite durable. Lives are doing pretty well. However, before, when you were on a CD, you were lucky to have nine or ten tracks and there was an album market. Today, it’s over, you not only have a single market on streaming, but also, where usually there were one or two of you creating a work, now, very often, there are ten or twelve of you to share the revenues that are generated. So, obviously, for some who are not performers and who cannot compose on their own, it is more difficult than before.
The streaming tax is a good idea to encourage two things: the emergence and export of our French champions who, thanks to the globalization of platforms, finally have an opportunity to reach an audience around the world.